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not really so much about gaza et al

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Jan. 6th, 2009 | 11:21 pm

Once upon a time I might have posted about what is currently going on in Gaza at the moment but, now, I am more likely to just say "what's the point?" I do occasionally on Urban75 but it's just bringing back all of the reasons why I don't argue about politics on the internet any more.

If anything it is a vindication of all those pieces written about how the internet makes it increasingly possible to narrow one's view at the same time as believing that one has all of the information available. Not, you know, sensibly, but all it requires is that one has a vaguely positive feeling about a few sources which echo each other, and a vaguely negative feeling about the sources which disagree with them, and doesn't look much elsewhere. There is so much feedback on the net that all of your favoured sources can be drawing from the exact same original source, which might certainly be utterly bogus. Not that this doesn't happen in the mainstream - it does, all the time, and the net makes it a lot easier to see this and find out where stories and opinions originate from - but there is so much stuff that exists purely to reinforce a specific opinion by the feedback process. A dozen different blogs all saying the same thing might convince you that you are actually looking at the whole picture.

More specifically, things which are really annoying me now are
  • the "decent left", who are scum anyway, basically noisily repeating all of the latest from Israeli Govt PR. I was going to say "without considering that that might not be the best primary source" but I think that in practice many may be quite well aware of that, only it suits their overall position not to think about sources;
  • members of "the left" (presumably, the indecent left) who chime in after everything saying "yes this is wrong but of course we must always remember that Hamas are religious nutters and we can't possibly support anything that might make them look slightly less worse maybe and look, here's a photo of a Muslim bloke holding a sign saying 'allahu akbar', I'm not going on that demo";
  • opportunist anti-semites popping in to start talking about the "Jewish Lobby" and how you know all the Jewish groups are supporting Israel and they're basically Nazis and, you know, the Holocaust industry? six million? I've already banned a couple from Urban;
  • anyone who talks repeatedly about "The Jewish State". Sometimes they are the anti-semites, sometimes not, but never, it seems, does it indicate anything apart from "I want to ignore political reality and tie this all to a specific religion";
  • oh yes, anyone, again potentially from all sorts of positions, who says "this is all about these antiquated beliefs, without sky pixies none of this would happen", similar motives except general rather than specific religion, and ignoring political reality because it's hard rather than because they want to promote or attack a group;
  • anyone saying "they're all as bad as each other". Cop-out. Fuck off.
A lot of things are annoying me.

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Comments {3}


(no subject)

from: hopefoot
date: Jan. 7th, 2009 05:00 am (UTC)

I don't argue about politics on the internet any more

This has got to be a sign of apocalypse. ;)

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The Princess of Id

(no subject)

from: danaseilhan
date: Jan. 7th, 2009 05:29 am (UTC)

You're right, it pretty much isn't about religion--that's an excuse.

On the Jewish side, the modern Zionist movement was begun by a motley crew of folks which included, of all things, Jewish atheists. I believe one or two of the major thinkers of the early part of the movement were, in fact, said atheists. It had nothing to do with faith for them, and everything to do with politics; from the little I've read I gathered that they may have been motivated by a strong drive to position the Jewish people so that they could get big and strong and then be just as big of assholes as the anti-semites who had tormented them for centuries. I also gathered that until the Holocaust, most Jews were willing to be patient and wait for the actual Messiah to show up and for God to give them back their land like He purportedly said He would.

On the Palestinian side, you could say their faith sustains them, but there's nothing in Islam that condemns Judaism per se. There are verses in the Qur'an which condemn specific Jews for betraying their alliance with the early Muslims and trying to get Muhammad killed, but (despite what some anti-defamation zealots argue otherwise) there is a difference between condemning people for their actions and condemning them for who they are. Meanwhile, the Palestinians were living, of all places, in Palestine--and even side-by-side with Jews who had been there all along--when along come the Zionists to run them out of their homes, their farms, their cities. You know, I'd be pissed off too. And if the clash between Native Americans and European colonists were happening today instead of six hundred years ago you'd better bet they would be running into shopping malls with bombs strapped to them. It may not work to drive the colonists away but it sure makes their stay on stolen land very, very unpleasant.

If it really were about religion then Islam teaches that Jews are the People of the Book. Judaism does not teach the reverse, since Islam did not exist at the time the Torah and Tanakh were written. I'm sure there are Jews who believe that everyone has a right to their own faith but it's certainly not a concept backed by scripture. See also what the early Hebrews did when they moved into the former Canaan, "land of milk and honey."

There is nothing inherent in Judaism, now, that would make them violent. But neither are they immune to political motivation, nor land lust. They're human beings, after all, just like the rest of us.

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Gaza etc

from: anonymous
date: Jan. 7th, 2009 10:58 am (UTC)

Let's not forget Britain's role in all this - it was one of the main architects of the Jewish state in the late 1940's.

How the hell you can expect dispossessed people to roll over and take it is beyond my comprehension and how Israeli's - victims themselves of dispossession - can so clinically do to others what they had done to themselves beggars belief.

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